Meeting of the Powers (M'gnum; All Wingleaders)

[Requiem]

::This thread was made for Shock, but anyone playing wingleaders from Selenitas or Inverness is welcome to hop in if you'd like. That includes: Mi'rah, K'ian, E'rro, Caden (yeah, have wings but not sure when they'll be put up cause of the current vacuum) Ce'thian, J'lorin and M'gnum, Arga too if anyone ever adopted her::

The table was occupied by the powerful dragonriders of Pern, for the first time in a long while, a meeting that had begun with logistics in terms of needed transfers and candidates and continued into a discussion of the impending Trials. Nearly everyone was a seasoned veteran of the Dragon Wars. Only one hadn't been a dragonrider for over ten turns, most for many more than that. Quite a few gray heads around that table. This table hadn't seen such a gathering since before the Wars ended...though of course it had seen many lesser meetings.

The eldest and the host of the meeting was half-reclined back in his chair at the round table, sleeves rolled up and jacket discarded in favor of comfort. "I wanted to officially make it known that I won't be making a bid for Weyrleader of either Weyr at the trials," he commented, a small smile touching his lips. "I've heard some of the rumors to the contrary flying around. It would be nice if anyone here wishing to take them would let the rest of us know, but that's just a nicety. I don't see the need to force a decision out of everyone." He paused. A glance was given a few he was pretty sure would be on that list of contenders, including their young goldriding member. S'rei had a bias against goldriders leading wings as a general rule, but Caden had been a wingrider before and was the junior, so he felt the risk justified. This once.

"I'd just like to add - and correct me Ce'thian if I'm wrong in speaking for both Weyrs - that we really need to present a united front. For the riders' sakes as much as the holders'. Lack of unity from the leadership will be echoed and amplified through the ranks. There should be no grumblings against the holders or specific groups of dragonriders from any of us here, nor any of our wingseconds. It should also be corrected if we hear it. The last thing we need is any violence from small factions enciting anything we can't stop." S'rei was aware that some people thought he'd climbed in bed with the holders...and others that he simply hadn't been able to stand up to them. He didn't much care. He'd seen enough war for any man. More than enough.

"Politically, too. I was curious if anyone had any ideas or opinions on what we should bring to the table when next the Summit meets. Four turns of peace seems an excellent time to try to get some of the restrictions lessened or lifted. If we talk about it now and any one of us becomes Weyrleader, it will be easier to get that in place. Any thoughts?"

[Aftershock]

M'gnum steepled his fingers as S'rei spoke, listening to the slightly older bronzerider explained the current situation facing the Weyrs. The man smirked slightly as S'rei stated the fact that he would not participate in the Weyrleader Trials... a statement that did not surprise M'gnum in the least, considering how long S'rei had been in charge of a Weyr; the man was obviously well ready to pass on the responsibility to another.

When S'rei asked who would be participating in the Weyrleader Trials, M'gnum raised his hand slightly and said, "I will be competing." He did not say anything further... it was simply a formality, a headcount of sorts, not an official bid that would require M'gnum to make any kind of speech. Then, S'rei spoke of the problem M'gnum himself had noticed, of riders who had waged war for so long that they wished to return to the days of the Dragon Wars, where riders were not beholden to anyone but themselves and combat against other Weyrs was the order of the day. He only hoped that bringing the matter to the attention of the other leadership would help quell the problem before anything happened that would threaten the peace they had fought so hard for all those Turns ago.

Thoughts of the Dragon War caused M'gnum's eyes to roam the room, remembering the last time he had been here... the final days of the Dragon Wars, planning his ground assault on Fort Weyr and where the remaining riders of Selenitas would join the riders of Benden on the front lines of the conflict. Some of the same faces were around the room then, as well, though now they were all a little bit older... and hopefully wiser. Having been involved in the War the majority of his life, it was still surprising to M'gnum that they sat around the table after four entire Turns of peace, discussing politics and cooperation with the Holds.

S'rei's words about the Summit finally shook M'gnum loose from his reverie, and he cleared his throat and stood from his seat and said, "Indeed, it is time we spoke to the Lord Holders and tried to get the restrictions upon us lessened or removed. They were seen as servants to the Weyrs for so long, I understand that the Holders enjoy their position of power over us, but the time has come for everyone, Weyr and Hold, to show ourselves as equals. We all have our roles, and one group holding authority over the other only beholdens the group on the bottom of the arrangement to become bitter and resentful."

[Rei]

Of course he was listening. He always listened. That didn’t mean the words being spoken didn’t annoy him though. The war baptized Wingleader was good at hiding annoyance now. With age came experience and hopefully maturity. The young bronzer had grown up quite a bit. He could still be headstrong and a bit of a gun jumper but those tendencies were mostly easily reined in now by the calmer Mavenath. The young bronzer watched S’rei as he spoke. There was a time when he hated the man but over the turns he had grown to respect him. That respect had only grown with his decisions during the summit. Cr’oph himself approved the majority of them. Holder children had no business impressing dragons in his opinion. Never did. A lot of the time they made terrible riders. Sure they shaped up in some cases but there were too many moral obligations. Too much emotional and sentimental garbage to toss out. It took them awhile to adjust to the lifestyle changes and some still never did. No. Holder children should stick to their world and riders should stick to theirs. This whole idea of one big happy world was foolish. It would never work. Pern has not perfect. It would never be.

Cr’oph waited for M’gnum to finish speaking before he spoke up, sitting up straighter in his chair and flicking his long runnertail over his shoulder. “I too plan to participate in the trails.” He announced his eyes fixing themselves on S’rei before they moved to the others around the room. “However M’gnum I disagree with you. I think these so called restrictions for the most part benefit us. It keeps the holders content. Let them have their ‘illusion’ of power over us. Everyone knows that’s not true. Besides I agree. Crafters should never have be taken from craft to serve as riders. Holders in general tend to make terrible riders unless taken at very young ages. Older holder children are too set in their ideals. Have too many moral issues to overcome. Our young dragons suffer and become confused over such a lot of the time. There are plenty of weyrborn to serve as candidates. I don’t mind the occasional very young group of holders being chosen but I disagree that they make good riders. Take some of my former classmates for instance.” A soft derisive snort was given. “No offense meant at all to you S’rei but we can take your son as an example as well. He is quite the harper. Might have been a better one had he never been reassigned from the hall and impressed that wher. Doors are now closed to him that wouldn’t have been closed had he not impressed. Had he impressed a dragon it would have been worse.”

His grey eyes moved to M’gnum. “Also some of our riders have been living in their holds for turns now. They are adjusted and starting to call those places home. Beyond that it gives us positions in the various hold, they are the link between hold and weyr if you were. I say leave them there. If you asked them half probably wouldn’t leave and come back now anyway. I don’t see what ‘restrictions’ You think need to be lifted. I see very little problem with things as they are now. If you think things would be better if we went back to the old ways I am afraid I must disagree.”

[Tashe]

His body shifted fractionally as he uncrossed his legs, stretching the ache that had gathered in them from sitting still too long. The green firelizard that perched on his shoulder cheeped softly and curled in closer hoping to return to the nap she'd been taking. With a sigh the Brownrider settled back into the chair, eyes closing for a moment before training them on S'rei. Meetings were not on E'rro's list of favorite pastimes, though he would hazard a guess many of the riders at the table felt the same way. As the only non-metalic rider present at the table, E'rro didn't pay much attention to those who spoke up about participating. There had never been a moment in his life as a rider where he had ever entertained the idea of becoming a Weyrleader, and he wasn't about to now. He was an ex-soldier, not a politician. As the attentions of those around the table briefly swept to him, E'rro lifted his hands and shook his head. "I won't be taking part. I'm sure the shinies will have a hard enough time winning the position without having to have me as a competitor." The half grin implied he was at least partially teasing the others. In the years since the war ended the Brownrider had managed to pick up the nuances of being humorous... well, at least for the most part. There were still some genres he had yet to comprehend.

As the talked turned from participation to new ideas for the summit, E'rro resigned himself to a more attentive sitting position. Elbow met table and fist met chin, propping his head up as he sat forward. Now this was a subject he actually had things to contribute to. Crafters and the holds didn't bother him as far as the current set up went, in fact he had to support the bad that prevented crafters from becoming riders. Though he took his time in jumping into the conversation, letting M'gnum and Cr'oph speak their minds first.

"I support much of what you said Cr'oph, but I have doubts in the holders make terrible riders claim. I personally have worked with and trained many Holdborn Riders who turned out to be respectably decent in terms of skill. We also have to face the facts that our population in general is low. Very few people had children during the war, and many of the children that would have been old enough by now, died during some of the tragedies. Supplementing the candidates with kids, even the older ones, temporarily every clutch is a necessity. Plus the more progressive Holds churn out candidates that are easily modifiable to Weyr culture. I believe that it is more of a specific regional situation than a general blanket problem." He took a moment before switching gears. "Though, that is not my main concern. I'd like to bring up the issues of restriction on the infirmaries and healing practices."

"I have been chomping at the bit in regards to these rules ever since they were instated. The Summit took away all of my best Healers and Dragonhealers and in return sent me a cart load of Hall trained Healers, some of which had never stepped foot in a Weyr before. Although I do not mind splitting even with Raebeli as far as who is who in the healing world, I hold particular spite for not being able to practice Healing just because I am a Dragonhealer." He itched the side of his cheek, making a face to underline his comments. "In other words, I'd like to see the the decriminalization of practicing the second part of the healing crafts for those who have been dual trained, as well as the reinstatement of training riders as Dragonhealers. Even if its a set amount." E'rro made a noise that fell somewhere between a growl and a sigh. "I can't stand the interns they send us. They just can't comprehend the complexities of healing a dragon like Riders can. It takes about twice the time to get them to the same level of a person whose been Impressed. Don't get me wrong, I don't mind giving them a work over, but sometimes its a real pain in the ass."

[Lotty]

Meetings were never really great for Mi'rah. Especially not large ones, since he spent most of his time looking pre-verbal but never really spilling out his guts. When addressed directly he had learned over the turns how to hold his own, but to cut into conversation, especially one that was growing at such a rate that it was seemed particularly daunting. After all, they were formally declaring their participation in the trials now? This was a thing? The bronzerider gave a sort of sigh as if recognizing that he was getting too damn old for this before giving his own non-committal answer in the form of a classic Mi'rah-ism, "I... suppose I'll only have to participate in the trials if I can't get what I want right here..." He smiled a bit at the end, humored if nothing else. He wasn't a demanding person after all.

But he also had a tendency of thinking along different lines and following a different logic. If Cr'oph ran, and won, it would be insanely painful to the older rider's plans. Participating might have to be a necessity despite how loathe he was to take part in it. Kierjaarth would be inordinately excited he was sure...

As E'rro stepped in to counter Cr'oph's strange idea that holders made horrible riders - way to offend at least a couple of them sitting here, to think he survived as long as he has only to be told that he was a less than worthy rider, you simply don't live as long as him without winning a few fights - Mi'rah found himself holding back, not wanting to dump on the young bronze rider as to why he was horribly wrong. Instead he spent his time thinking about his personal desires. Ostensibly he wanted the crafters back because he wanted Tenlie back, but the thought came with a heavy heart knowing that for her happiness, it was best that she stay away and find someone of her own. She was too young to waste her time on him, and if he was an honest man he had to admit that. Yet at the same time, he wanted to be right and to tell everyone I told you so. It was so rare to have such a satisfying feeling.

"If you don't mind... me interjecting," Mi'rah added as a gap opened up in the conversation, "I do agree E'rro that the restrictions on Healers is p-articularly egregious. To think that a dragonhealer is not permitted to heal and vice versa..." He shook his head, he just wanted to say that monitoring such practices was the act of pure control freaks, but he left the notion as merely an insinuation, "But alas, my thought is... well Cr'oph noted that the crafters probably want to stay in the holds. Rather than assuming that this is the truth, why d-don't we actually ask them? If you want to use public opinion as evidence, it better be the correct opinion. Making up a silent majority will not help," he wrung his hands a few times under the table, "I'm not saying that we have to carry out their wishes, just that actually knowing them would make us more informed."

[Requiem]

Listening, he allowed them all to say their piece and think on it before jumping in. When a natural lull occurred after Mi'rah spoke, he shifted slightly to sit straighter. "I would advise against pushing to lift all of the restrictions on craftsmen. It is too early. Cr'oph is right in that they are our liaisons between Weyr and Hold. It is my belief that if we are to achieve an understanding between the two societies, most of our headway will be made through the ones who live amongst the holders every day. That said, there are a few around this table who are holdbred. Please remember that everyone here has earned their position," he directed to Cr'oph, his tone mild.

"I don't see how it could hurt to get an idea of how our craftsmen are assimilating, though. Perhaps rather than making a blanket demand to move them back we could request exceptions be made for a small number of individuals who aren't adjusting well. Does anyone disagree that dragonhealers should come from the rider ranks?" He had been about to endorse it outright, as if the matter was settled, before falling back to the question. It was possible someone might disagree even if he couldn't see how. "Perhaps we might also ask for those riders still at the Weyrs with healer training to be allowed to practice healing and dragonhealing, dual-trained or not. Openly, anyway." There was a trace of amusement behind the words. He was well aware that many of the former healers practiced outside of the infirmary, if only in minimal first aid or preventative type capacities.

"I think that our aims should focus on our healers and dragonhealers and maybe bringing back the small number of craftsmen who haven't adjusted. The general idea that craftsmen not be candidates I support. We need the holdbred, though. E'rro speaks truthfully. We still have the right to send anyone back without allowing them to Stand. Even with the holdbred candidates to augment our numbers, we don't always field enough candidates for these Hatchings. It also allows the weyrbred children to take up a craft if they want to instead of forcing them to Stand or join the drudges here."

His eyes passed around the room. "Of course we're all aware that if we wanted our craftsmen back we could bring them to the Weyr without anyone's permission. We could force tithing from anyone who refused to. This is a matter of respect and an attempt to repair the shattered trust between holders and dragonriders, working with them to establish these rules and then abiding by them. It may take some time. I applaud your idea of equality, M'gnum, but I don't think the time is yet right."

[Aftershock]

M'gnum stiffed at bit as Cr'oph spoke, disliking the younger bronzer's speech referring to the power of the Holders as "illusion", and disparaging Hold-bred riders as a whole. He glanced over at S'rei as Cr'oph even attacked the abilities of S'rei's own son, wondering at the older bronzer's reaction, and waited for the others to have their say before responding, "I never once said I believed things should be back the way they were before. Before, the Weyrs had power over the Holds... now, the Holds have power over the Weyrs. Perhaps you are correct, S'rei, that things are too early to pull all the restrictions off, but at least requesting it might show some of the riders who might be chafing at the restrictions and harbor grumblings that we should attempt to just use martial force to 'take back our power' that the leadership isn't just sitting by and letting the Holders be in complete power without even an attempt at equality. In order to be as effective in our duties as possible, we must all work together, and even if it fails, the attempt should at least be made so as to show that we at least understand the anger of some of our contemporaries that have had difficulties adapting from a war-bred mindset."

M'gnum simply nodded in agreement when S'rei spoke of allowing dual-trained Healers to perform their duties unrestricted, and then replied to the talk of Hold-bred Candidates and the return of those crafters who were not adapting to the Weyr with, "I believe it's all a matter of choice. Part of the reason we have grumblings among the rider ranks is the fact that many did not feel they had a choice as to what happened to them after Summit, and the feeling of a complete loss of power of your own fate can make even the most mild person feel the need to fight back against those who made their decisions for them. Both crafters and those Hold-bred children who are Searched for hatchings but do not Impress should be given a choice as to where they live, over what direction their lives take."

[Rei]

Cr’oph did well to keep the irritation from showing on his face, instead he adopted a rather calm expression his grey eyes flicking to each rider and holding as they spoke. E’rro came up with good points. Besides that he sounded like he would make a valuable ally. If he played his cards right. Cr’oph could give and take for that man’s support. It didn’t much matter to him if dragonhealers were dragonriders. It made sense. He also didn’t mind if some could be dual trained. E’rro and Erilena were already dual trained. Granted his old classmate had been shuttled off to a hold. She still visited on occasion and he had the sneaking suspicion that it wasn’t all pleasantries. No. The bronzer could agree on that point. It was some things that the older ones were saying that he found annoying.

S’rei has a smart man. The younger bronzer was fairly certain that he couldn’t contest him. Not because he was afraid of him but because his time was done. He had said it himself. Cr’oph and his peers were the future of Pern. Not the older bronzers like S’rei or M’gnum. They would just have to make way in the end. The man was fairly certain he had a decent chance to win if he played his cards right and if he could gain enough support to sway the votes in his favor. Something he was working on. Ce’thain hadn’t spoken up but then the man was quiet so that didn’t mean much. Cr’oph was fairly sure that the man would compete again and he had a good track record. Hmm. Pushing that thought aside as there was finally a silence he could take advantage of Cr’oph spoke up again.

“I’m sorry if I gave that impression that they all are terrible riders. I’m not saying all I’m saying a majority. I understand that for now we need them to bolster our candidate numbers. I think however that E’rro has a good point. We should be more selective in what holds we take from and who we take from them. Why not take the youngest possible so that we have a better chance to tweak them to understand and accept our ways? Older ones seem like a waste of time except in, as many of you pointed out, special cases.” That should hopefully shut some of them up on that angle and stop them from trying to criminalize him. “I’m just looking out for our future prospects and to that point I do agree on trying to get the healer restrictions loosened. However I do not agree on bringing all those crafters back who have already been settled in holds. I think pushing for allowing the dragonriding healers to decide if they want to come back to simply be on call for the weyr is enough. Also I agree that getting permission to have a set amount of young riders trained for dragonhealing would be beneficial not only to us but to the holds we protect. The dragons are out there protecting them it’s not unreasonable to ask for health benefits for them to help do their duty”

As to the point about the other crafter riders? “I don’t really think knowing the majority opinion at this point would do us any good. We need those riders where they are, as you S’rei pointed out, and if we really want this healer ban lifted we have a better shot of doing that if we don’t ask for too much at one time. Asking for one craft’s restrictions to be lifted is far easier to obtain then asking for multiple favors at one time. Besides I really don’t see this huge outcry from any of them to be accepted back into the weyr. Maybe one or two are having issues but that is hardly a majority. Perhaps we can allow them to plead their cases individually for the summit to listen to but I think that’s as far as we should let that go.”

This finished he turned grey eyes on M’gnum the look cold but not angry. “The holds hold no power over us truly. They just think they do and it’s best to allow them to continue believing such illusions. It keeps us and them safer. They have not imposed anything on us that we were not willing to let happen. It’s hardly made us any weaker either. If anything some of the bans only help us out in the long run. Our riders no longer hold allegiance to various crafts when they should only hold allegiance to the weyr. So I am not sure where you are getting that from. If we wanted to we could take all our riders back at the drop of a hat. We could refuse to fly thread. We could use the dragons against them. They know this too. Holds and weyrs will never be equal in power. That doesn’t mean that we shouldn’t let that be the illusion for the sake of peace but that’s hardly a truth. I don’t see why holder candidates that fail to impress should be allowed to stay either. They can benefit their respective holds far more by taking up a craft then staying here and doing drudge work. The way you want things to run may work in storybooks M’gnum but the world is not perfect. It is dirty and cruel and will bite you in the ass if you’re not careful.” With that the young bronzer subsided and stroked the Razorclaw on his shoulder, Raven offering a soft whistle before picking at the bronzer’s fingers gently.

[Tashe]

The joints of his fingers cracked as he twisted them slightly in thought, it had become something of a bad habit in the recent years, something he did unconsciously every now and then. Opinions around the table yielded a variety of different tracks though many of them were agreeable in relation to one another. "Well then, I appreciate that many of you seem invested in the problems the Healers are facing. With what has been said, I can certainly draft a proposal as to what restrictions Raebeli and I would like to see lifted, and ultimately submit it to all of you for your viewing pleasures, upon which we can discuss the contents at our next meeting." It would be a lie if it were said that the Brownrider wasn't incredibly pleased. "If, of course, that is agreeable with everyone."

Though everything seemed to come back to the importance of the candidates that came from the Holds. "As far as asking... well, I don't see why we shouldn't. Mi'rah makes a point here. Even if we don't do anything with the information, just having it gives us data we can use in the future. Plus, when was the last time we checked on our the whole of our Hold Watchriders via anything other than reports?" E'rro himself often made trips out to visit his ex-healers when he could, or he at least kept in contact with them through letter exchange. "It allows us to see who is ill-content with where they are and through that, use it as a basis on who we may be able to recommend to the council as having a strong case for petition. Though I must say, I rather prefer the idea of sending the children back if they don't impress..."

"Regardless, I do not see why we are sitting here arguing who has more power over who." He switched his attention onto the youngest Bronzer among them. "Cr'oph, you and I were born and trained in a time of War. We were both brought up at Benden, taught the old ways of Weyr power and pride, and while what you say speaks to the loyalist and soldier in me... I am more inclined to swing my agreement the opposite way." He leaned forward slightly, spreading his hands in an open gesture, trying to show the younger man he wasn't trying to purposely single him out among the others. To further push his gesture, the Brownrider allowed his eyes to wonder over everyone there as he spoke. "Holds did and do hold power over us. They provide not only Candidates for our hatchlings but food and provisions as well. Tithes are a huge part of how we sustain Selenitas. I get most of my numbweed and herbs from our southern Holds, while my Needlethorns and antidotes come primarily from the Northern holds as their climate is more suitable to many of the perennial plants. And I'm sure some of you remember how difficult it was when the exiles were hiding, as we had to reduce ourselves to raiding to literally get enough to feed both dragons and humans alike."

"I'm not saying that Weyrs are not strong and immeasurably more powerful than Holds; we could 'take back our riders at the drop of a hat' as you commented Cr'oph, as well as deliberately not destroy the thread that falls... But that would be falling back to the ways of ruling by fear and threat that existed in the Dragon Wars. I think that many of us, especially those of us who literally grew up eating and breathing War, have never experienced what it was like to coexist with holds in a time of peace." A moment of surprise was visible as it flitted across his face, it was a sudden enough change of thought that Feather chirped in confusion as she woke from her nap.

"Agh. Why haven't I thought of this before." Turning slightly he addressed S'rei. "The records room." He paused, "Burimyu existed far before the times of War and although it was eventually abandoned, it seemed as though it had been extremely abundant. It is possible that they kept detailed records of their dealings with their surrounding Holds and the agreements that they may have come to. Perhaps those records may be of some assistance to us. Their old systems may lead us to new ideas for future discussions. You're right S'rei, that this is not yet the time for equality, but it wouldn't hurt to begin paving the way for it. If we are permitted access to the records room, maybe it could help both you M'gnum and you Cr'oph, with some of the things you both believe to be of import to the current and future survival of the Weyr."

It would also further his agendas, least of which was finally getting his hands on the old healing records. "Plus the Kymans have not yet been spotted this season, we can use this chance to seal the second entrance to the room and safety proof it." He sat back against his chair, "Just a thought."